CORE 8. Authorities from Earth and Elsewhere

Ptaah: The transmissions were directed to two men, Schriever and Miethe who, on their own, had drawn up plans for the "Flying Tops." These blueprints fell into the hands of the Americans and Soviets who began studying and constructing the units. Also, through theft, the group in South America obtained copies of the same "Flying Tops."

Billy: One can say with certainty that this group consisted of high-ranking Nazis who fled from Germany after the war ended and disappeared in South America.

Ptaah: You should not mention any more about this subject.

Billy: Of course not. --- On account of World War II, disk-shaped flying objects were observed also in Germany, indeed, worldwide . . .

Ptaah: You are correct in this, yes. However, these flying objects were not of terrestrial origin. They belonged to us and to our allies from the federation.

Billy: This would mean that the flying disks which had been observed were not related to the flying disks, respectively "Flying Tops" disks, or Foo Fighters, of the Germans. Claims to the contrary, therefore, are actually foolish assertions by liars, fantasists, and know-it-alls. We've wanted to know about this for a long time.

Ptaah: What I have told you only refers to the Schriever and Miethe Foo Fighters.

Billy: You mean there were others?

Ptaah: Yes, others did exist. However, they were part of a private research program conducted by power hungry Nazis who drew upon Schriever's and Miethe's blueprints. Efforts to develop and test fly their Foo Fighters were underway with positive results in Germany at that time.

Billy: By the group now in South America?

Ptaah: Your conjecture is correct.

Billy: And all of this took place right under the nose of the Gestapo?

Ptaah: Many influential members of the Gestapo and its SS-leadership were secret, active participants who attempted to prevent the rest of the world from gleaning any information about the construction, test flights, and other matters. When the war ended, they fled Germany and went to South America, taking with them all of their material and staff. This was not a difficult task, for the Foo Fighters had reached a point were they had the capability of circling the Earth non-stop and transporting all required personnel and materials to South America before the Allied Forces could seize them --- or prior to the Allied Forces finding out anything about these secrets.

Billy: So that's how this all happened. How far did the construction of Schriever's and Miethe's Foo Fighters progress?

Ptaah: The prototype for the first test flight was available on July 15, 1941. We monitored this very closely. The Foo Fighter was, however, not constructed according to the data we had transmitted, for we had intentionally made them ineffective by then, as we could foresee the grave danger they would present for terrestrial mankind. [Comments by Billy: The Pleiadians/Plejarans transmitted data for the construction of flying disks to the Germans Schriever and Miethe at the end of the 1920s and beginning of 1930s with the intent to produce an aeronautical technology that would help prevent the looming warfare conflicts. Unfortunately, they soon realized that this technology would be used for the exact opposite purposes. For this reason, the Pleiadians/Plejarans counteracted the undertaking again.] We did not attempt to interfere in the development of Schriever's and Miethe's Foo Fighter until we suddenly recognized that the units also posed an immense threat to mankind. Once we realized the flight was going to be a full success, and that mass production of the Foo Fighter would result, we intervened during the preparations to the first test flight."

This 'dialogue' continues on for some time, until Meier concludes

" . . fantastic stories were concocted about flying disks/Foo Fighters which were said to have reached altitudes of 12,000 meters [7_ miles] and Mach 2 or more during their first test flight (which never did take place). Additionally, a fairy tale tells of the Germans having flown to Mars, landing and performing studies there, so that they could inhabit the planet one day. Complete nonsense, all of it. Billy" [57]


Henry Stephens

Henry Stephens runs the 'German Research Project', and sells copies both of much of the pro-mythos material, and of more identifiably Nazi and arguably ant--Semitic material. In an article in 'The Probe', referring to the work supposedly done on a flying disc by A.V. Roe in Canada, he claims that one of the recorded contributors to the project is shown as "Miethe-Designer 1950(?)" Spinning off into the realms of imagination, Stephens continues

"The reference is obviously about Dr Heinrich (Heinrich? How many names does this man have?) Richard Miethe, who was the designer and builder of the wartime German saucer project, the V-7. Dr Miethe worked during the war at a German facility in Breslau, now part of modern Poland. After the war, he was recruited by the Americans and Canadians to recapitulate his earlier work for Germany in America. Renato Vesco, an Italian engineer who worked with the Germans during the war and who afterwards held a cabinet position with the Italian government, states that Kahla was the location where a turbo-jet powered German saucer lifted off in its maiden flight in February of 1945. Vesco later wrote a book about his experiences, originally titled 'Intercept but Don't Shoot'" [58]

Actually, for all his wild speculation, Vesco never claimed that he was writing from his own experience, but details like that simply don't bother Stephens, as he spirals off into wild assertions about German free energy, atom bombs, Vril, Haunebu, Tesla, Montauk, the New World Order and the rest. And all this from the man whose mail-order business makes him one of the more influential figures in this strange field. His 1998 catalogue outlines the purposes of the GRP

German Research Project is an organization devoted to distributing information concerning flying saucer-type devices made by the Germans during the Second World War. Beyond this goal, we also hope to distribute information concerning other German weaponry and technology, such as free-energy technology, which is still kept secret and classified by the former Allied Powers. We also hope to explore the reasons for this secrecy. Part of this technology now comprises the research being done by the Americans at Area 51. Much of this technology was retained by a German organizations which did not surrender at the cessation of hostilities. These groups and their histories will be explored also.

The Germans built several types of flying craft which today we would designate "UFOs". Some were conventionally powered, that is with jet and rocket power, and some were powered electromagnetically. They were built in different places throughout the greater German Reich by different organizations within the government. They were kept under the tightest secrecy. Near the close of the War some of these devices were disassembled and transported by U-boat or simply flown to secure areas outside Germany.

Today, especially since the unification of Germany, more and more information is surfacing concerning these developments in spite of the efforts by our government and its media to discredit, divert and confuse the issue. For those individuals new to this topic, we suggest first reading item number 16 in our catalogue, "Introduction To Secret German Flying Discs Of World War 2" and any title from our video offerings." [59]


Len Kasten

The incidence of disinformation with relation to Nazi achievements in general, and flying discs in particular, is high. Here's some parts of an article by "Len Kasten" from the New Age glossy Atlantis Rising. As usual, he adopts Vesco as an authority, and introduces Viktor Schauberger into the myth. It may be that he actually produces the most detailed account of disc-propulsion, too!

"The more important anti-gravity weapons research was carried on near Prague primarily by Viktor Schauberger and Richard Miethe. In 1944 Miethe, in cooperation with the Italians, developed the large helium powered V-7 and the small one-man Vril models which achieved a speed of 2,900 km/hr in flight tests . . Captain Hans Kohler developed the Hanibu 2 with a diameter of 25 metres which carried a complete flight crew and was powered by a simple electrogravitation motor called the Kohler Converter . .

Kasten describes the (totally fictional) Kugelblitz as an "explosive gas weapon", having

"a 50-50 mixture of butane and propane, which was ignited by the exhaust of the bombers . . direct gyroscopic stabilisation, television-controlled flight, vertical take-off and landing, jam-free radio control combined with radar blinding, infrared search 'eyes', electrostatic weapon firing, hyper-combustible gas combined with a total reaction turbine, and last, but not least, anti-gravity flight technology. This was the incredible Kugelblitz or 'lightning ball'. If it had emerged even six months earlier, could the war have turned out differently? We will never know, because by this time the Allied armies were rapidly converging on Berlin. So the Kugelblitz puffed out a formation of bombers, and flew off into history - or did it?" [60]

We'll return to the 'formation of bombers' when we come to Wendelle Stevens


David Hatcher-Childress

Those of you familiar with the fields of both pseudo-science and pseudo-history - and pseudo pretty much anything, really - will already know of the boundless imagination of Hatcher-Childress. In his publication 'Man-Made UFOs 1944 - 1994, 50 Years of Suppression', by "Renato Vesco and David Hatcher-Childress", Hatcher-Childress actually republishes the whole of Vesco's first book (without really making clear that's what it is), adds some early UFO photos that might look like the ones he appears to believe were built in Germany during the war, and speculations of his own. His "Summary of the Claims and Evidence" has some familiar elements . . .

"After various experimental prototypes, including the rocket powered Miethe and Schriever discs, production began on the small ten meter diameter interceptor-fighters of the Vril series. The larger Haunibu series began with the 25 meter Haunibu 1 & 2. These craft had canons mounted underneath and were designed as "tank Killers".

The 74 meter Haunibu-3, designed as an anti-shipping craft for use over long distances, was actually built and tested. It had inflatable rubber cushions on the underside for landing. The 300 meter Haunibu-4 was on the design board for interplanetary travel. It was disc shaped and could also carry several of the smaller Vril craft. Also reportedly in the design stage was an immense 330 meter cigar-shaped battleship.

Towards the end of the war, the Germans had developed interplanetary craft with no moving parts which were capable of going to the Moon or even Mars." [61]

In 'The Thesis of This Book', he also asserts that

"Some German divisions removed themselves to South America and Antarctica in the few months and weeks before the end of the war . . the Americans, British and Russians began to build test discoid aircraft in the late 40s and 5Os. Isolated German pockets in South America have intense UFO activity. Antarctic bases are probably vacated or captured by Americans and Russians. Today, a seven-story or more underground base run jointly by America and Russia exists at the South Pole." [62]

I have no idea whether Hatcher-Childress actually believes this nonsense. I suppose he must, because otherwise he'd be knowingly misleading his many readers. Unfortunately, this concoction of a book has created something of a new generation of believers, including the UK author Alan Baker. In spite of his publisher's confident assertion of his "meticulous research" for his book 'Invisible Eagle', Baker accepted Hatcher-Childress without question, and now a new readership is stuck with Vesco developing flying discs at Lake Garda and investigating UFOs for the Italian Air Ministry, the reality of the Feuerball and Kugelblitz, and the top-secret Projekt Saucer. One man's research is another man's trip to the bookshop.


Wendelle Stevens

Wendelle Stevens, veteran ufologist and Billy Meier supporter has, he says, been privy to a unique range of experiences pertaining to Nazi UFOs. As well as having been "sent to Alaska to supervise the installation of special equipment onboard B-29 bombers" to look for "mysterious flying objects known as 'fire balls' or 'foo fighters'", he claims in 'Alien Encounters' issue 25 that the Vril and Haunebu discs "were used just once against the Allies, in which they devastated a vast 800 bomber raid over Germany, shooting down an unprecedented 200 in just one night". [63] Bomber Command clearly missed this tragedy when compiling its records.

David Icke, who in 'The Biggest Secret' takes the Nazi UFO mythos as true along with hundreds of other nonsensical beliefs, reports Stevens as saying that

"the Foo Fighters were sometimes grey-green, and sometimes red-orange. They approached his aircraft as close as five metres and then just stayed there, he said. They could not be shaken off or shot down and caused many squadrons to either turn back or land." [64]

Stevens also purports that while working at the Air Technical Intelligence Center he saw a map of Germany which was marked with nine Saturn-shaped symbols. He later found out from Vladimir Terziski that these were where Nazi research centres were located,

"By the end of the war the Nazis had nine secret research facilities where they built two types of disc: the smaller 'Vril' craft, and the much bigger 'Haunebu' Both of these were powered by a 'gravity null field'. In test flights the craft rose 60,000ft in just six and a half minutes, which radically outstripped the performance of any allied aircraft." [65]


Vanguard Science/KeelyNet/Al Pinto

Any Internet search for 'Nazi UFOs' and similar subjects is likely to produce links to material by "Al Pinto" or "Tal", apparently "Sponsored by Vanguard Sciences, PO Box 1031, Mesquite, TX 75150, USA" which depends heavily on the article written under Vesco's name in 'Argosy'. [66] Additional material re Nikola Tesla and Viktor Schauberger is added to quotes from Vesco and Lusar, particularly a claim that Schauberger had developed the 'Schriever, Habermohl, Miethe and Bellonzo Flying Disc' at Malthausen Concentration Camp, using prisoners to do the work. I still don't really know quite who "Al Pinto" and "Tal" are, or what the underlying intention of 'Vanguard Sciences' may be. The coincidence of the name 'Vanguard' with a prominent neo-Nazi organisation has been mentioned to me on several occasions.

I did receive, through a friend who had published some earlier findings on Nazi UFOs, a message from a Jack Veach who said (inter alia) that

"Mr McClure makes some very positive statements debunking a great deal of untruths about Nazi UFOs, however I would like to offer him a website and an email whereby he might find more information about Mr Renate Vesco.

I am a member of Vanguard Science, not Vangard Science, as he has listed. This is a civilian group of folk, here in the Dallas-Ft Worth area that are open-minded about the verity of science and have taken it upon ourselves to study Tesla, Keely, and a host of others we feel have been given the short-end of the stick with respect to technology and applications thereof.

Mr Jerry Decker and Mr Chuck Henderson could much better avail you of information about Mr Vesco and his work. I personally had an English translation of one of his works I gave away about ten years ago pursuant the German V-7.

My father and his C.O. both saw Foo Fighters over Europe during WWII, so that much is real. Neither my dad nor Col. Lasly knew anything about UFOs, nor had any interest in them. What they did say was that between the Foo Fighters and the Me-262s they encountered, they felt they would be killed before the war was over in Europe.

I hope that will clear some things up for Mr McClure with respect to Vanguard Science and Mr Vesco and hopefully all of us can clear the riddle of the Nazi UFOs from all the smoke and mirrors that unfortunately come to the fore on something of this nature."

My friend sent an e-mail back to Mr Veach, expressing my interest in receiving further information about Vesco, but no response was forthcoming. The post-mortem involvement of both mainstream and fringe scientists in the development of flying discs has raised a variety of names including Marconi, Einstein, Tesla, Schauberger, Keely and others. I am unaware of any real evidence that Schauberger worked at Malthausen using slave labour. If that suggestion is no more than wishful thinking, then I am left wondering why anybody should wish for it.


Mark Ian Birdsall

Birdsall has long been an influential figure in ufology. Currently Editor of the newsstand magazine Unopened Files - Access a Number of Well Kept Secrets and Features Editor of UFO Magazine, he has an established interest in wartime UFO events. In his 1998 book Alien Base', Tim Good says

"Interestingly, there is circumstantial evidence that at least one of the V~7 project aircraft was prototyped. According to the researcher and author Mark Ian Birdsall, several projects involving a circular-wing aircraft were conceived during the war, the most elaborate of which was constructed by Dr Richard Miethe at facilities in Breslau (Wroclaw), Poland, and in Prague. A small prototype was rumoured to have flown over the Baltic Sea in January 1943, and two full-scale aircraft with a diameter of 135 feet were eventually built. Also, reports Birdsall, another V-7 project was a 'spinning saucer', based on helicopter principles, about 35 feet in diameter, designed by Rudolf Schriever, a small prototype of which was allegedly first flown in 1943." [67]

Good's reference for these comments is given as "Birdsall, Mark Ian, Flying Saucers of the Third Reich: The Legacy of Prague-Kbely (pending publication). That book has not, as I write, yet been published.

In, I think, 1988, Birdsall had published the unfortunately-titled booklet 'The Ultimate Solution' which, in just 29 pages, presented three different pictures of Hitler. It also includes copies of US intelligence documents reporting the newspaper accounts of George Klein's claims of the test-flight on 14 February 1945, diagrams of assorted Miethe-Schreiver-Bellonzo discs, and some probably avoidably uncritical material about 'secret' Antarctic exploration and the escape of Nazis from Germany at the end of the war. [68] In 1992, in Vol.7 No.4 of the US 'UFO Magazine', he wrote an article titled 'Nazi Secret Weapon - Foo Fighters of WWII', and included illustrations of a supposed 'Schriever-Habermohl' disc. [69] The introduction to the article says that Birdsall "just completed a hefty manuscript which enlarges considerably the scope of the available source material". It would be interesting to see what material Birdsall has found, and whether his views might be influenced by what is being published in this piece.


Ernst Zundel/Mattern Friedrich

Ernst Zundel, also known as Mattern Friedrich (the name under which he authored UFOs - Nazi Secret Weapon? [70]) and Christof Friedrich (how he has signed the copy of that book which I have) has had considerable involvement in the distribution of material regarded as Holocaust revisionism. He has often been described as an anti-Semite.

Zundel sustained the 'Nazi UFO' myth through much of the 1970s, presenting a mixture of Lusar, Schauberger, and the 'Hitler survived/Nazi Antarctica' material, illustrated with vague photos of uncertain provenance, and the usual diagrams from the European press. He seems to have been unaware of Vesco, but could well have introduced the idea that Schauberger worked actively on disc development with slave labour. While not doubting the underlying sincerity of Zundel in promoting German wartime achievements, a report of comments he allegedly made to Frank Miele may well reflect his attitude to his readers. Miele quotes Zundel as saying

"I realised that North Americans were not interested in being educated. they want to be entertained. The book was for fun. With a picture of the Fuhrer on the cover and flying saucers coming out of Antarctica it was a chance to get on radio and TV talk shows. For about 15 minutes of an hour program I'd talk about that esoteric stuff. Then I would start talking about all those Jewish scientists in concentration camps, working on these secret weapons. And that was my chance to talk about what I wanted to talk about." [71]

Whatever else may be true of Zundel, I think I can safely say that his work has no factual contribution to make to the 'Nazi UFO' debate. But that doesn't mean that he hasn't influenced its development, or that others less canny than he, but with similar beliefs, have not involved themselves in the subject because they believe what he said.